FIC: Silence is Golden (Cromwell/Cranmer)
May. 23rd, 2010 10:15 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
linndechirTitle: Silence Is Golden
Author:![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
linndechir
Fandom: history/The Tudors (works for both, but look-wise I had the actors from The Tudors in mind)
Pairing: Thomas Cromwell/Thomas Cranmer
Rating: PG-13
Words: 918
Summary: They never talked about it, because words could only condemn them.
Author’s Note: I’ve been wanting to write about these two for ages, but even after some research Cranmer remains rather mysterious, and I still don't really dare to write a longer fic about them. So, first attempt to write them; all sorts of feedback and criticism are more than welcome.
There was something unusually subdued about these meetings: no welcoming words, no heartfelt smiles, no firm handshakes, no long hours spent in animated discussions, no exchange of private thoughts. The gentle, natural familiarity they usually felt was missing on these particular nights, when everything was quiet and hushed, when eyes did not dare to meet, hands seemed afraid even to brush, cheeks were flushed in heat and shame.
No word was spoken when the heavy door opened just enough to let the secret visitor in, a split second of eye contact before they both looked away. They never talked about this, no hidden sign or agreement indicated that this should be any different from their more appropriately shared evenings, and yet somehow they always knew which evenings were meant for talking, and which ones for this other thing that neither dared to name.
Their steps were painfully loud on the way to the bedroom, lit only by two candles. They were too ashamed to do this in bright light, and yet complete darkness would only serve to remind them even more of how despicable this was.
Shy eyes watched as trembling fingers started to remove their wearer’s clothes, and only when the first inches of pale skin gleamed in the candlelight, only when both Archbishop and Secretary were cast aside with their heavy robes did the two men dare to come closer, hesitating once more, as if they had not done this dozens of times before, as if it shouldn’t become easier over time. Only the protesting words of their first nights were missing, they had both long realised that they couldn’t bring themselves to stop. But the guilt was still there, the shame, the desperation that touches could only delay, never heal.
A deep intake of breath, parted lips venturing the first shy smile when Cranmer finally looked at Cromwell, eyes asking for permission that was given in an almost invisible nod, an invitation, a pre-emptive gesture of forgiveness for an act that could not, should not be forgiven. Cranmer leant in ever so slowly, every night as awkward as the first, but only until that sinful, blissful moment when their lips met and left no room for doubts.
Hands slid under wide, white shirts, exploring and so soon remembering where to touch, where to caress and where to tweak to make a pulse quicken under soft skin, to coax the first moans from one mouth into another. They fumbled with too many buttons and ties of clothes that suddenly seemed needlessly complicated. Cromwell laughed a little, the smile breaking through the usual composure of his face, a bitter laugh as if he marvelled at how worldly and mean this felt, this almost childish struggle against mere fabric, but the smile turned into one of relief when the last piece of cloth touched the floor, when nothing was left between their chests and their groins as they embraced, lips meeting again, more securely this time, knowingly, pleadingly.
Cranmer’s blue eyes were wide with a joy that was almost boyish in its brightness, and still he would not look at Cromwell, but he smiled as his face was covered with reverent kisses, he smiled as gentle, firm hands guided him down on the bed, as that warm, familiar body covered his. They still would have blushed had they ever paused for a moment, but shame was a meagre opponent for the sight of a desired body sweating in the candlelight, of a beloved face bestowing kisses on sensitised skin. The pleasure was so overwhelming it seemed anything but real and worldly and mean, a pleasure so ecstatic that, God forgive them, it had to be heavenly, for surely such bliss could never have been meant for this realm.
As they lay entangled in each other and in the sheets, fingertips drawing lines and forbidden words on tainted skin, lips refusing to part, loosely resting on each other even as they gasped for air - as they lay there, all was well for the shortest of moments. They looked at each other, eyes and hands whispering all these things that their lips could not, not even now. I love you, Thomas, and it couldn’t, shouldn’t feel so good just to think it, knowing that it was not the love between two friends, and not the love between man and wife, knowing that it was so much more, that it was everything, that it was too much for this world of flesh and sin and guilt.
So they merely gazed at each other in silence, smiling until the last ounce of pleasure washed out of their tired bodies and left them empty and cold, not sure whether to cling to each other or to flee this damnable embrace. Cranmer bit his bottom lip, flushed and swollen already from more welcome bites, but when he moved to sit up Cromwell’s arms held him down, pulled him close again.
“Don’t leave tonight,” Cromwell whispered hoarsely - the first words either of them spoke that were more than the incoherent pleas of lust-riddled minds. Cranmer paused, for why would he return to his own cold bed? As if it would change anything to sneak out now, as if it would mean anything except having to bear the guilt alone without the comfort. So he settled back into welcoming arms and closed his eyes, and just for one night, like so often before, he refused to believe that sin could make a man so happy.
Author:
linndechir Fandom: history/The Tudors (works for both, but look-wise I had the actors from The Tudors in mind)
Pairing: Thomas Cromwell/Thomas Cranmer
Rating: PG-13
Words: 918
Summary: They never talked about it, because words could only condemn them.
Author’s Note: I’ve been wanting to write about these two for ages, but even after some research Cranmer remains rather mysterious, and I still don't really dare to write a longer fic about them. So, first attempt to write them; all sorts of feedback and criticism are more than welcome.
There was something unusually subdued about these meetings: no welcoming words, no heartfelt smiles, no firm handshakes, no long hours spent in animated discussions, no exchange of private thoughts. The gentle, natural familiarity they usually felt was missing on these particular nights, when everything was quiet and hushed, when eyes did not dare to meet, hands seemed afraid even to brush, cheeks were flushed in heat and shame.
No word was spoken when the heavy door opened just enough to let the secret visitor in, a split second of eye contact before they both looked away. They never talked about this, no hidden sign or agreement indicated that this should be any different from their more appropriately shared evenings, and yet somehow they always knew which evenings were meant for talking, and which ones for this other thing that neither dared to name.
Their steps were painfully loud on the way to the bedroom, lit only by two candles. They were too ashamed to do this in bright light, and yet complete darkness would only serve to remind them even more of how despicable this was.
Shy eyes watched as trembling fingers started to remove their wearer’s clothes, and only when the first inches of pale skin gleamed in the candlelight, only when both Archbishop and Secretary were cast aside with their heavy robes did the two men dare to come closer, hesitating once more, as if they had not done this dozens of times before, as if it shouldn’t become easier over time. Only the protesting words of their first nights were missing, they had both long realised that they couldn’t bring themselves to stop. But the guilt was still there, the shame, the desperation that touches could only delay, never heal.
A deep intake of breath, parted lips venturing the first shy smile when Cranmer finally looked at Cromwell, eyes asking for permission that was given in an almost invisible nod, an invitation, a pre-emptive gesture of forgiveness for an act that could not, should not be forgiven. Cranmer leant in ever so slowly, every night as awkward as the first, but only until that sinful, blissful moment when their lips met and left no room for doubts.
Hands slid under wide, white shirts, exploring and so soon remembering where to touch, where to caress and where to tweak to make a pulse quicken under soft skin, to coax the first moans from one mouth into another. They fumbled with too many buttons and ties of clothes that suddenly seemed needlessly complicated. Cromwell laughed a little, the smile breaking through the usual composure of his face, a bitter laugh as if he marvelled at how worldly and mean this felt, this almost childish struggle against mere fabric, but the smile turned into one of relief when the last piece of cloth touched the floor, when nothing was left between their chests and their groins as they embraced, lips meeting again, more securely this time, knowingly, pleadingly.
Cranmer’s blue eyes were wide with a joy that was almost boyish in its brightness, and still he would not look at Cromwell, but he smiled as his face was covered with reverent kisses, he smiled as gentle, firm hands guided him down on the bed, as that warm, familiar body covered his. They still would have blushed had they ever paused for a moment, but shame was a meagre opponent for the sight of a desired body sweating in the candlelight, of a beloved face bestowing kisses on sensitised skin. The pleasure was so overwhelming it seemed anything but real and worldly and mean, a pleasure so ecstatic that, God forgive them, it had to be heavenly, for surely such bliss could never have been meant for this realm.
As they lay entangled in each other and in the sheets, fingertips drawing lines and forbidden words on tainted skin, lips refusing to part, loosely resting on each other even as they gasped for air - as they lay there, all was well for the shortest of moments. They looked at each other, eyes and hands whispering all these things that their lips could not, not even now. I love you, Thomas, and it couldn’t, shouldn’t feel so good just to think it, knowing that it was not the love between two friends, and not the love between man and wife, knowing that it was so much more, that it was everything, that it was too much for this world of flesh and sin and guilt.
So they merely gazed at each other in silence, smiling until the last ounce of pleasure washed out of their tired bodies and left them empty and cold, not sure whether to cling to each other or to flee this damnable embrace. Cranmer bit his bottom lip, flushed and swollen already from more welcome bites, but when he moved to sit up Cromwell’s arms held him down, pulled him close again.
“Don’t leave tonight,” Cromwell whispered hoarsely - the first words either of them spoke that were more than the incoherent pleas of lust-riddled minds. Cranmer paused, for why would he return to his own cold bed? As if it would change anything to sneak out now, as if it would mean anything except having to bear the guilt alone without the comfort. So he settled back into welcoming arms and closed his eyes, and just for one night, like so often before, he refused to believe that sin could make a man so happy.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2010-05-23 08:31 pm (UTC)The pleasure was so overwhelming it seemed anything but real and worldly and mean, a pleasure so ecstatic that, God forgive them, it had to be heavenly, for surely such bliss could never have been meant for this realm. - Absolutely loved this part to pieces!
Mmmm, their sins makes me happeh and if God had any brains at all/was a slasher, he'd love them to ^/////^
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Date: 2010-05-23 08:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-23 09:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-23 10:34 pm (UTC)This is perfect! <3
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Date: 2010-05-24 01:05 am (UTC)Enough rambling, I just wanted to thank you! :D
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Date: 2010-05-24 05:42 am (UTC)I haven’t had a chance to watch The Tudors (though I wanted to), but I know the historical figures. Yay for history slash! Quite a nice little piece, I don’t know how to explain it, but the style of writing dovetails with the content perfectly, all hesitance and lingering and candlelight. That doesn’t make any sense, but oh well.
shame was a meager opponent for the sight of a desired body sweating in the candlelight, That’s a lovely turn of phrase.
So many lines I could pull for it, but well done quietly drawing in the taste of religion to everything.
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Date: 2010-05-24 09:41 am (UTC)I'm so glad you liked this. I was experimenting a bit with the style, I rather enjoyed it. Maybe I should write like that more often. And religion just creeps into everything with these two. They're worse than Blackwood and Coward in that regard. ;)
Thank you! :)
no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 05:53 pm (UTC)FYI, I left my initial comment at FF.net because I received an e-mail notifying me that you had a new story there. Unfortunately, even with filters my Friends Page here is so packed that I rarely have time to go through it. ;-)
To answer your question, you are a wicked girl for simply writing RPSlash, and I mean wicked in the very best sense of the word, so do NOT be offended, do you hear me? Honestly, girl, this is lovely.
Now for the great god of uniform fetish's sake, read and review my Landa/Hellstrom fic. I always review your fics!
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Date: 2010-05-24 09:32 pm (UTC)I have one issue with imagining Cranmer from the show. His clothes. I really want to know what the hell he was wearing. I mean What The Hell. xD Sorry.
Lovely written! I liked their characterization, and the uncertainty is perfect. The neo-platonic references made my day :D I loved them to itty bitty pieces.
A beautiful piece ^^
and see, you can write them sans theology. Just get Crum to regale stories of his shifty past and you should be all right. xD
And here's a Cranmer icon for you since all my Tudors ones right now are Anne. While I do have one of Crum, I just felt like Cran needed love. The reason for real Cran is that the ones I have with show Cran I don't like. xD
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Date: 2010-05-24 09:38 pm (UTC)Crum's shifty past, yay! I have another fic idea for them, but I'm a little afraid it might have to involve more theology. Not to mention that I always feel the urge to write AUs in which people like Crum don't die ... and that DEFINITELY needs more research, if it's supposed to have a plot. ^^
Now I have to imagine Cranmer asking Crum about his time in Italy and everywhere else, and Crum trying to talk his way out of admitting the naughty details. ;)
You and your clothes obsession. :P Were his clothes so wrong in the show? Because, honestly, I was too distracted by Hans Matheson being wonderful to care. *cuddles show!Cran* I need to get an icon with him.
*hops around in joy and relief* ^^
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Date: 2010-05-24 10:00 pm (UTC)Well, I already told you that it's guh and pretty and you know IU love me some denial!love. D'AWW.
Teh Nari
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Date: 2010-05-24 10:28 pm (UTC)Haha yes Crum and his past. He and Cranmer used to write letters to each other that, had they been found, would have ended with both of them in prison (at best) or dead (at worst). Cranmer would babble on about his Calvinist views (HERESY) and Crum would return by regaling Cranmer with the dirty details of his past. xD They were so cute.
I love AUs, especially historical ones. I wrote one where Naps ends up in England in 1806 to work on a peace treay xD He and Arthur Wellesley hang out, homo-erotic undertones ensue.
I'm sorry! It's the historian in me! And I'm head of costumes for tech a lot so clothing details are something I'm obnoxiously hyper aware of.
But, I mean, most of the people in Tudors clothes are inaccurate - more Elizabethan than Henry's time - but Cranmer's are beyond ridiculous. I mean BEYOND ridiculous. Like's it's just BAD.
Compare:
Clothes of early/mid 16th. English clergy: http://ahoy.tk-jk.net/MoreImages2/ArchbishopThomasCranmer.jpg
http://www.luminarium.org/encyclopedia/gardiner2.jpg
http://tudorhistory.org/people/warham/warham.jpg
You get the idea.
Cranmer in the Tudors:
http://www.hansmatheson.org/tudors/cranmerpromolge.jpg
http://www.hansmatheson.org/tudors/cranmer121.jpg
What the hell is with the purple thing? He's more accuratley dressed when he first appears on the show (http://www.hansmatheson.org/tudors/cranmer16.jpg and http://www.hansmatheson.org/tudors/cranmer2.jpg). Basically he's all right until he becomes archbishop and then suddenly it's like BAM the costumer couldn't be bothered to google Thomas Cranmer.
And no proper man would wear his dublet open to just his shirt. Shirts were underclothes - he is currently in the worst state of undress EVER. http://www.hansmatheson.org/tudors/cranmer70.jpg
http://www.hansmatheson.org/tudors/cranmer83.jpg
His hat is wrong too, as Archbishop.
http://www.hansmatheson.org/tudors/cranmer106.jpg
-coughs- and all priests were clean shaven for the most part. To have a beard as part of the clergy was to literally scream, as loud as you can, I AM A LUTHERAN, BURN ME!
I'm done ranting now.
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Date: 2010-05-24 10:31 pm (UTC)http://www.aboutjamesfrain.com/tudor%20portrait/album/tudport%20lightbox/index.html
no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 10:38 pm (UTC)Historical AUs make me happy, especially if they keep people from dying (because I ALWAYS love those people in history who get assassinated, executed, or otherwise die too early). And Cromwell needs to live. *nod nod* But, yeah, writing historical AUs that make halfway sense is not easy.
I suspected that most of their clothes weren't all that accurate, but you know I'm not as obsessed with this as you are. But I'm glad you are, because I love your ranting about it. I do see your point, and the purple was indeed horrifying. They probably thought that he had to look special and impressive as Archbishop or something. You can't have an Archbishop in boring black, that just won't do. ;)
Also, I'm afraid I can't bring myself to complain about this state of undress ... But, yeah, I do see your point. ^^ (The funny hat makes me snicker every time, btw.)
I imagine they had him have a beard because Hans Matheson looks like he's 16 when he's clean-shaven, and that would have been even worse than him looking like a Lutheran. ;)
Squee, I really love your rants. I just enjoy the funny clothes too much to mind. ;)
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Date: 2010-05-24 10:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 11:13 pm (UTC)We know that Crum wrote those things to him because we still have Cranmer's side of the correspondence and we can see his replies to them. I know there are two volumes of Cranmer's correspondences that have been published but they're hard to get your hands on. The ones I've used for research I obviously snagged from my Uni's library. I reason your university probably has a copy of them as well. The originals are in Oxbridge somewhere xD
Cromwell ought to have lived. It's actually rather easy having that happen. Just have Cranmer/Brandon/someone close to Henry go and eloquently and passionately defend Cromwell's name. Henry, when axing people he was close to, was actually quite vulnerable to persuasion. Just bother that always changing conscience of his.
I think Cranmer, had he been able to meet Henry (he was convientently kept away), might have been able to change his mind. His sway over Henry is apparent by the simple fact that when Anne fell Cromwell kept Cranmer away from the king so he wouldn't save her life. Cranmer almost managed to convince Henry to save Kitty Howard (the only reason that failed was the discovery of her affair with Culpepper). Henry even went out of his way to save Cranmer's life on a few occasions and willingly turned a blind eye to his archbishop's very Luther/later on Calvinist tendencies and his wife and children.
etc. etc. etc.
Er. As I said, it's the Renaissance major in me. Prof. Cook (one of my profs last year) and I would rant about the inaccurate clothes during class xD I mean with a budget as large as the Tudors had they could have done slightly more research. Wikipedia for christ's sake would have helped. xDD
Apart from Cranmer's outfit, which is something that honestly bothered me, I really don't care with shows like The Tudors which are more about how much sex can HBO shove into 40 minutes than anything else.
I'm still confused on how they managed to pull off Kitty Howard's fall and death sans Cranmer. He was the one who did EVERYTHING during that time. xD
And who is going to lecture Katherin Parr and tell her to stop being openly Lutheran? Parr gets in trouble with Henry for hiding Protestant books and arguing with him about theology and almost gets sent to the tower but Cranmer stepped in and told her to put aside her pride for a few years and apologize to Henry and generally keep her head down if she wanted both herself and the movement to survive.
Cranmer appears to have learned one or two tricks from Crum. xD too bad the secretary didn't live long enough to see the Archbishop be active in politics.
-coughs-
Done now. xD
no subject
Date: 2010-05-25 10:37 am (UTC)Mhm, let's hope that one of the numerous libraries in Berlin has them. Otherwise I will go and cry in a corner. I mean, I'm not even living in an English-speaking country, and while we have a lot of English stuff, we definitely don't have enough of it.
Often it's just a few things that had to be different to have someone survive. And I so like the idea of Cranmer convincing Henry not to have Crum killed. I mean, Henry would probably still find some way to punish Crum, but as long as Crum lives long enough for Henry to realise that he's too useful to be killed, all's well, no?
Haha, yes, all those wonderful anecdotes about Henry protecting Cranmer whenever someone wanted to get rid of him. I don't think I'll ever get over Henry placing Cramner at the head of a heresy enquiry against himself. ;)
Cranmer's weird purple stuff was a bit offputting, even from an aesthetical point of view without knowing anything about historical accuracy or lack thereof. Again, I guess they just thought that Cranmer had to look impressive and important, and that bright weird colours are better for that than black.
It looks like they just have other people do what Cranmer was supposed to do. Really, the only thing that makes sense is that Hans Matheson didn't have time for another season; but then I really wonder why they didn't choose some other actor to replace him (as far as I remember, they had two different actresses for Jane Seymour too, not for an entire season, but still). It would have been less weird to have him look different all of a sudden than to have him disappear completely. At least in season 3 they mentioned him occasionally, but in season 4 I don't think they as much as mentioned his name. Maybe they have surprise!Latimer who popped up last episode play the part of warning Katherine Parr. At least he doesn't wear purple. ;)
More ranting please? ;)
ignore the anon version of this
Date: 2010-05-25 06:41 pm (UTC)Following the progression of Cranmer's addresses to Cromwell is also interesting. It goes from "Master Secretary" to "My dear master secretary" to "my dear friend" etc. etc.
When I get home I can look up my essay and notes for it and see what I can find for their addresses to each other.
I remember one from 1532/33 - the year of Anne's fall - where Cranmer is writing to Crum and begins with no address. Just goes right into the letter and is requesting help for a friend or something equally mundane and then BAM he begins grilling Crum about the rumors concerning Anne. It's a rather queer letter when compared to the rest of their usual correspondence.
Look up "Miscellaneous writings and letters of Thomas Cranmer" on google books. The 1846 edition is the one I used. Cranmer refers to Cromwell as both "Cromwell" and "Crumwell" and of course as "Master Secretary" and the like.
Henry almost immediately regretted offing Crum. Like it hit him pretty quick that Crum was one of his best advisers. He rued the day he executed him for the rest of his life. Serves him right, of course.
Being Secretary to Henry VIII was like being a pope in the 300/400's - you're almost guaranteed to die on the job earlier than usual.
The heresy inquiry is my favorite story.
Henry: You're a fair judge, you judge it master Cranmer.
Cranmer: ...but it's an inquiry against myself!
Henry: Yep.
Cranmer: That's not impartial judgment!
Henry: This is Tudor England, man! Impartial judgment doesn't exist!
Yeah for season 4 they've just had Brandon and the Seymour brothers fill in the job. Though for the interrogation of Kitty Howard they had Gardiner do it! I was annoyed that they had him take Cranmer's roll. They were opposites!
See it made sense for him not to be there in season 3 - Cran was laying low then anyway due to the 6 articles and such. But season 4! Come on! Cranmer was taking full advantage of Henry's bipolarness concerning religion to push through protestant legislation.
I agree, they should have had someone else come in. It would have been nice to have had him.
Lol. Surprise!Latimer or a Surprise!Fox. Essentially Surprise!Reformer.
Re: ignore the anon version of this
Date: 2010-05-26 03:58 pm (UTC)I won't even comment on that. It just makes me very happy. :D
I'd love to see the stuff you wrote about them, it all sounds very interesting. :D
Aaaah, that's great. I've also seen that one of our libraries actually has said 1846 edition, if I ever want to stick my nose into the real book, but a pdf is rather practical as well. :) Even if most of his letters are business-related, the mere fact that he trusted Crum so much in this regard is reason enough to have a look.
At some point Henry should have realised that it's stupid to KILL people right away. It would be so much more sensible just to put them away if they annoy you, and get them back out when you need them again. But either way, that just means that an AU with Crum surviving wouldn't be all that absurd. ^^
Bwahaha, I always love your dialogue snippets. I can just about see Cranmer's completely dumbfounded expression. Make that everyone's dumbfounded expression when they hear about it. Pity Henry didn't also ask Crum to lead the enquiry against himself. I just wonder how this episode continued. Did Henry just forget about it, or did he actually expect Cranmer to lead some sort of pseudo-enquiry and tell him about it?
I think I've spent all of season 4 so far grumbling, "stupid Gardiner". It doesn't help that show!Gardiner is utterly uninteresting and boring as a character.
Yeah, but even if he was keeping his head down they could at least have given him occasional guest appearances, if only to remind people that he didn't suddenly die, like so many other people at the time. And, yes, especially in season 4 they should at least have hinted at the fact that he was still there and actually doing something. Since they already gave a younger Cranmer a beard, they could have just stuck a grey beard on the new actor and pretend that he's just older now and therefore looking different or something. ;) I still would whine about Hans Matheson disappearing, but at least in the show it would all make more sense.
Surprise!Reformer, yep. See, those evil, devious reformers just pop out of nothing when you least expect them.
Re: ignore the anon version of this
Date: 2010-05-26 05:00 pm (UTC)I think Henry did expect that. I mean...one can assume he did. I've never heard the rest of the story, actually. I'll have to go get my hands on the Diarmaid Maccullugh (sp?) bio - he'll have have the ending of that fiasco. xD
Norfolk: So I say we charge him for heresy!
Henry: Excellent, and you'll have an inquiry?
Gardiner: But of course.
Henry: Good, good. I've got someone to head it for you. And specialist in the field of Lutheran heresies.
Norfolk: Oh, your majesty?
Henry: Thomas Cranmer, have you heard of him? He's fairly well known...
Norfolk: ... er ...-_-
Gardiner: o.O;
Cranmer: ...hi?
Henry: ^.^
Yeah, they didn't do very well with Gardiner. Though, he was a bit of a stick in the mud so there really isn't much you can do with him. It's just much more fun if Cranmer's there since then they can argue about theology and Cranmer will invite him over for supper to make it up to him since he'll feel bad about their argument and Gardiner will feel obliged to say yes because that's common courtesy and it will be a mess.
A large, evangelical, catholic, oh shit is there a real presence in the Eucharist, iconoclasm! iconoclasm!, mess.
Yeah, at the very least they ought to have mentioned him. Hell, Wolsey still gets the odd mention and he died way back at season 1. xD
no subject
Date: 2010-05-26 05:10 pm (UTC)It's the kind of anecdotes that's so amusing in the beginning that everyone just forgets about the rest. But, again, I love your version. show!Cranmer makes me imagine Henry ruffling Cran's hair. No, but seriously, sometimes I wonder if Henry didn't just enjoy making fun of everything every once in a while. It's like he's walking around with a 16th century equivalent of LULZ written all over his face. ;) I just can't for my life imagine Cranmer leading an enquiry against himself. I mean, how would that even work? He could interrogate himself in a schizophrenic Gollum-way or something.
I suppose they didn't want too detailed arguments about theology in the show, assuming the audience is stupid. Still, maybe I'm mistaken, but as far as I remember there was a bit more theology and politics in the first seasons. Lately it's really just about Henry wanting to do this or that woman without any added background.
Ah, Wolsey. You know, when I watched the show I was rather sad to see Wolsey go, I rather liked him, but that was before Cromwell took over in season 2 and was even more fun (which surprised me, because a friend who had watched the show before me went on ranting about how she hated show!Crum, for whatever reasons).
no subject
Date: 2010-08-02 01:27 am (UTC)I've been marathoning the Tudors recently and am sadly disappointed at the general lack of fic but so, so happy to see this!
It's so pretty. The title of the piece just fits in so well with the overall tone, this kind of hushed, breathless, reverent...gah! Tut, tut, tut boys. So sinful. It's gorgeous.
no subject
Date: 2010-08-02 01:45 am (UTC)I was so weirded out by the complete lack of fic. It's one of the slashiest shows ever (and there are also so many possibilites for het and femslash, if one is into that), and there's hardly any fanfic. :/ I just had to do something about the lack of Cromwell/Cranmer out there.
Have you finished watching all four seasons?
Anyway, thank you! I'm so glad you liked this. Cranmer is really difficult to write, and I think this relatively unpersonal point of view is the only thing I could pull off with him. Does that make any sense? I just struggle with his characterisation. Probably the reason why this is the only fic I've written, despite all the research I did about these two.
Ah, and btw, if you like Cromwell/Cranmer, and especially if you also like Cromwell alone ... you should read Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel. life_of_amesu recommended it to me. It's a novel about Cromwell's rise to power (without his fall), with amazing characterisation instead of the usual Cromwell-was-evil-bullshit. Cranmer's role is relatively small, but in their few scenes together they're very obviously in love. ^^ It's a wonderful book, well written and really funny.
no subject
Date: 2010-08-02 03:28 am (UTC)The mind. It boggles.
Oh I am getting that book as soon as! Thanks for the recommendation! I love Cromwell. Love him. To little bits. I'm sitting here watching and talking to my screen "Oh Cromwell, don't listen to him, he is a stupid man and you clearly rock."
Also I might have started interrogating people I know IRL "Say you lived in the 16th Century. Would you support the reformists or the papacy?"
*cough*
I've blazed my way through 2 and a half seasons. I know Cromwell's fate is coming up soon so it's made me a bit more slow in my viewing.
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Date: 2010-08-02 03:34 am (UTC)I adore Cromwell. I've read a lot about him, and I just love his efficiency and his intelligence. I like people who are not blinded by ideology, especially at a time like that, but who still have convictions and are not just power-hungry bastards. He could have achieved so much more if Henry hadn't had one of his angry fits and killed him.
LOL, very easy question for me, considering how much I dislike the Roman-Catholic church. Yeah, okay, I dislike churches in general, but still. And Cromwell and Cranmer just won me over. ;) My mind has been so stuck in the 16th century for months, it's scary. Having a historian as a brother doesn't ease my obsession. ;)
Cromwell's death was so horrible to watch, but I think they did really well in the show. But I don't want to spoil you about the details. I'm just so annoyed that Cranmer disappears after season two. He might not have had much to do in season three, but he was REALLY important in everything that takes place in season four, which ends up making no sense at all without him.
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Date: 2010-08-02 04:07 am (UTC)It sucks that Cranmer just vanishes. But of course, I suppose it's because they couldn't get Hans back and they didn't want to recast. A pity!
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Date: 2010-08-02 04:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-09-03 05:30 am (UTC)I read some of the comments about the fandom. I've never been much inspired to write Tudors fic although I've done quite a few fanvids and Tudors-era history vid, such as they are (just did a Mary Tudor/Katherine Howard one, my first slash fanvid ever), and I'm active on the Tudorswiki forums. It might be because these are historical characters so I feel less comfortable writing about them than about fictitious characters. But I've joined this group so maybe that means I'm ready.
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Date: 2010-09-04 12:00 pm (UTC)Mhm, maybe you're right, but then again these people have been dead for over 400 years, so unlike with present-day RPF you don't have to be afraid that they or their families might ever stumble upon these fics. I know that it took me some time to get something written because I have great respect for both Cromwell and Cranmer, and I wanted to do some proper research to get them right. But there are other characters on the show about whom you can write fic a lot more easily than about these two - that's why the lack of fic surprised me.
Well, if you ever do write fic, that would be awesome of course. :)
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Date: 2011-01-28 07:10 am (UTC)Wow. This was so lovely and perfect for both of them. I like how there was minimal dialogue but just fine-coated description of what they were doing and what they were thinking. Also love the ending. I thought it was so sweet and Cranmer is so adorable, :D
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Date: 2011-01-29 12:30 am (UTC)Anyway, I'm really glad you liked this so much. :)