Stupid translator fucked up

[linndechir]

I finally continued reading Les Bienveillantes (I didn't have any time to read in the weeks before Christmas), and I came to a sentence that made me squee so much I almost fainted. Eichmann describes Heydrich as "un homme qui souffrait dans son coeur", literally "a man who suffered in his heart". So, Linny freaks out and wants to cuddle and hug Littel for knowing what he's writing about and not writing some crap about Heydrich being an emotionless machine. I do what I usually do when I have a fit of fangirling, I call assassin-nariel, who read the book in German. Curious, I ask her how they translated this. She looks it up and tells me that the German version says: "ein Mann mit großem Einfühlungsvermögen", which basically means "a man with great empathy" (Einfühlungsvermögen and empathy aren't exactly the same thing, but close enough).

WHAT THE FUCK????

Now, I'm sorry, but the translation doesn't have ANYTHING to do with the original. The original sentence could have been translated literally into German and would have been perfect. Or, if the translator didn't want that, it could have been rephrased in a way that's still close to the original meaning. But what's up with this so-called translation that doesn't even come close to the French version, no matter how you interpret it? I am so angry. We're talking about a professional translator here, shouldn't he, I don't know, at least understand French and not butcher the meaning? I'm tempted to write that guy a letter and ask what the hell he was thinking. Seriously, I could have done a better job than that and I'm NOT a professional who gets paid for it. I can't even imagine any justification for this shit. I just hope the rest of the translation is better.

On a lighter note, this passage kills me. In a good way. It's so simple, and clear, and true, and beautiful:
"En travaillant, je pensais : au fond, le problème collectif des Allemands, c'était le même que le mien ; eux aussi, ils peinaient à s'extraire d'un passé douloureux, à en faire table rase pour pouvoir commencer des choses neuves. C'est ainsi qu'ils en étaient venus à la solution radicale entre toutes, le meurtre, l'horreur pénible du meurtre. Mais le meurtre était-il une solution ? Je pensais aux nombreuses conversations que j'avais eues à ce sujet : en Allemagne, je n'étais pas le seule à douter. Et si le meurtre n'était pas une solution définitive, et si au contraire ce nouveau fait, encore moins réparable que les précédents, ouvrait à son tour de nouveaux abîmes ? Alors, que restait-il comme issue ?"

(Rough translation, it's 5am and I'm too tired to think about details, but it's probably still better than the crap this [insert vulgar insults] wrote: "While I was working I was thinking: deep down, the Germans' collective problem was the same as my own ; they too had trouble finding their way out of a painful past, making a clean sweep to be able to start something new. That's how they had arrived at the most radical solution, murder, the painful horror of murder. But was murder a solution? I thought of all the conversations I had had about this subject : I wasn't the only one to doubt, in Germany. What if murder wasn't a conclusive solution, what if, on the contrary, this new fact, even more irreparable than the previous ones, opened a new abyss? What other way out could there be, then?"
Again, this doesn't do the original any justice; if anyone has the original English translation (which is hopefully good), please tell me. Also, tell me if this doesn't make any sense. I'm too annoyed to concentrate and ponder about tiny little nuances between almost synonymous words. Seriously, translating "pénible" into English is tricky, too tricky to deal with it now.)

Hope you guys all had a nice Christmas or whatever else you're celebrating, undisturbed by stupid translators. :)

Comments

Please, please write the letter!

[machiavelli-imp.livejournal.com]

WHAT?! This almost makes up for all the slurs heaped upon Heydrich's hands. I swear that this is not in the English version! Nor is the Heydrich/Schellenberg, even if you squint.

Believe me, I squinted a tremendous amount. I wish my French was sufficient to read the original: the thing that mystifies me is why Littell didn't write the English translation (and possibly the German) himself. This is my giant gripe with translations: it is intrinsically impossible to retain every nuance of the original. Add politics and I'm surprised that the German version bears any resemblance to the French original. I honestly don't believe that the aim was to write a book faithful to the original, but to write something that wasn't going to be banned. To have a Heydrich qui suffrait in any manner implies a man with a conscience, which I don't think fits in very well with the nice, safe perception of Heydrich as a raging sociopath devoid of any human emotion: the sort of person whom we never have to worry about putting in a position of power again because their crazy, murderous tendencies can be spotted a mile off.

Oh fuck, here I go ranting on a tangent again...Sorry, I spent Christmas day being lectured for being a Nazi by two Jews whom I would normally count amongst my friends, merely because I view them as people instead of machines and I said that I wanted to be as organised as Gerd von Rundstedt. I really shouldn't be taking my frustration out on people who know what I mean. Where does the "Quand je travaille" passage come in the book? Is this when he's in France playing secret agent with his student buddies? If you can narrow it down I'll look for the "authorized" English translation. I suppose you already saw my wankfest about the ending? It should be the second entry from the top.

In more cheerful news, is there any progress on the Heydrich/Marseille/Hartmann fic? If there isn't, may I respectfully beg for some (Manfred) v. Richthofen/Voss? It's WWI so we don't get such spiffy uniforms, but the aviation part is a lot simpler and those two are begging to be shipped more than Landa would and kiss Heydrich's boots if he were given Falscher!August as a toy. < / convoluted metaphors >

Re: Please, please write the letter!

[machiavelli-imp.livejournal.com]

Cuddle Littell? Does this mean Heydrich is free - I'd be cuddling him!

And I meant souffrait - I can't spell in any language today! Also, my dictionary translates Einfühlungsvermögen as sympathy, which seems even more fucked up. Empathy is the ability to put oneself in another's position and understand their actions, but sympathy implies that there is an emotional attachment as well. I don't know the context in which Eichmann was saying it, but I think that Heydrich (even Bienventailles!Heydrich) leans towards the former in his professional dealings. Even that doesn't make sense, because the phrase in French implies (to my school French brain anyway) a forceful passion and strength rather than a cold, purely logical analysis. So surely what Littell means is a duality: on the one hand, Heydrich is capable of turning interactions into pure mathematics and starting from the moral axioms of someone else, is able to plot their responses and act accordingly; on the other his reason for doing this makes his soul burn with intensity.

Re: Please, please write the letter!

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

Noooo, no stealing my Heydrich! *holds on to him* :)

Mhm, "Einfühlungsvermögen" is one of those typical German words that can hardly be translated. It's probably something in between empathy and sympathy, but I feel it's closer to the first. I'd translate sympathy with Mitgefühl, not with Einfühlungsvermögen. Einfühlungsvermögen is, like empathy, the ability to understand other people's motivations and feelings, it can imply that you also feel sympathy for them, but not necessarily. But either way Einfühlungsvermögen has something to do with other people and their emotions. "qui souffrait dans son coeur", well, that can of course be -caused- by other people, but it's still about his own feelings, not about how he deals with other people's feelings.

Re: Please, please write the letter!

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

As far as I know Littel doesn't speak German (which is strange, because this is one of the most German books I've ever read). I hope he at least read the English translation, that would help. One of my main reasons for learning languages is that I'm tired of translations - I love Russian literature, and I doubt that I'll ever fully appreciate it until I can read it in Russian. But I digress. Yes, most likely it was political correctness. Let's keep Heydrich as a big, bad, evil sociopath, the machine-like mind behind the nutcase visionaires. Apparently it has become acceptable to show Hitler as a human being (even if every time a movie or book does that, Germany gets a small heart-attack), but Heydrich? Mr Wannsee Conference? God forbid that people might actually KNOW something about him other than "omfg evil".

It's in the Sarabande, when he's visiting his mother and stepfather and he's chopping wood.
Yes, I saw your post about the ending. I already spoiled myself by reading the last page, but ... yeah, I think I'll until I've finished the whole book before I start agonising about the ending. ;)

It's only Heydrich/Marseille, I'm afraid. Still RP-ing with a friend, but it might take a while before we're done. Have seen your rant, but haven't seen the movie - nor do I want to, because if it's anything like Pearl Harbor (which it is, according to that review you linked to), I won't even make it through the movie without committing ritual suicide. But, mhm, maybe the slashiness could get me through crappy het romance? Can it? [Because you can't expect me to start reading up on them, I have my hands full with Heydrich. ;) ]

Om nom ... Hellstrom getting Fälscher!August out of the camp to give him to Landa as a birthday present ... this shouldn't be so hot.

[machiavelli-imp.livejournal.com]

That's the one thing that gets on my nerves when I visit das Vaterland Germany: everything is so smothered in political correctness that whenever I get into conversations with random strangers about history (as one does, being an overly-inquisitive tourist) I feel like I am a robot parroting the same carefully chosen phrases while the real me jumps up and down in my head like an angry id pulling on nerve endings, desperate to get me to stop acting like a pillock. Once again you've read my frustrated and cynical mind on the Heydrich = OMFG EVIL issue!

I'm still looking - I'm sure that's because I know that the translator will have fucked it up, just like the last line "The kindly ones were on to me." Suddenly Max has acquired 21 C. turns of phrase and will mention the words "epic fail" in the epilogue. Please tell met that that isn't the original meaning! I'd love to hear your opinion about the ending - I have to admit that the masochistic genderfuck that occurs when he visits von Unpronounceable's house became a little too surreal even for me.

For some reason Heydrich/Marseille would make me even happier if Heydrich was on the bottom for once. cat_irix's Heydrich vignette with Paul Bär (someone else's OC) comes to mind.

The rant wasn't so much of a complaint against the film, but a litany of all the muck that it had to include in order to be filmed, in the same way that the latest Valkyrie would have been exponentially improved if von Stauffenberg had been played by Thomas Kretschmann and all the Ami actors had kept their damn noses out, but instead we ended up with drivel because they couldn't raise enough money with a German playing a German. I'm happy that Der Rote Baron exists because thee are plenty of diamonds amongst the dirt. (WTF is this "Baron"? I thought that a) in German his sobriquet was "De Rote Kampfflieger" and b) the correct title is "Freiherr" but correct me if I'm wrong.) Since I'm lazy I'll just copy a previous post to a friend - sorry if some bits don't make sense, I have only a few seconds before being dragged from the computer.

1. Best way to attend a funeral ever: youtube clip from "Der Rote Baron" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUEH-tEZ_uU&feature=related) (which is NOT GOOD GERMAN)
2. Close-up of Matthias Schwieghofer (!) because he is a) a pretty pilot boy and b) plays BFFs with Til Schweiger's (!!) character in 1:
angry!Voss (http://p3.focus.de/img/gen/6/4/HB34Ajow_Pxgen_r_467xA.jpg) - obviously Richthofen is late to *cough* clean his engine. But how can he stay annoyed with him for long? He's so adorable (http://p3.focus.de/img/gen/6/4/HBBsqp6F_Pxgen_r_467xA.jpg) especially in the uniform (http://p3.focus.de/img/gen/6/4/HBR75Tx0_Pxgen_r_467xA.jpg)! And he carries a spanking stick (http://p3.focus.de/img/gen/6/4/HBRzeGkw_Pxgen_r_467xA.jpg) just in case Voss gets too cranky. Personally, I think Richthofen should be the angry one when his BFF insists on wearing vile baby-poo-coloured jumpers in propaganda shots (http://p3.focus.de/img/gen/6/4/HBedQNpT_Pxgen_r_467xA.jpg).
3. And they're totally BFFs in real life too (http://www.monstersandcritics.de/downloads/downloads/galleries/56127/jpeg-2b0y3415-20080120-img_16688770.onlineBild468,2274247491685.jpg) (except not so slashy!)
4. This part is the only bit actually in German, a full review (http://www.focus.de/kultur/kino_tv/Film/filmkritik-der-rote-baron_vid_4935.html).

[machiavelli-imp.livejournal.com]

And why hasn't anyone written Hellstrom/Burger? (Burger is his character in Die Falscher, right?) And if Heydrich decides that he wants Hellstrom and gives Burger to Landa instead, there can be top and bottom Landa. Yay!

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

Well, next time you visit das Vaterland, be sure to come and see me, then we can have a conversation that deserves the name. ;) I didn't know -anything- about Heydrich except that he organised the Wannsee Conference and was therefore personified evil until I started reading up on him. I've started to call him "Reini" whenever I talk about him with a RL friend, simply because I don't want to get stoned in the train for talking about Heydrich without ranting about how evil he was.

I still haven't finished the book, somehow I never find the time to read more than 50 pages at once, FML. So, my opinion about the ending will have to wait. The last line, however, is in the original: "Les Bienveillantes avaient retrouvé ma trace." Literally: "The Kindly Ones (this sounds so crappy) had found my trace again."

Erm, I don't think I've read that one. Link please? :) Also, I have to disappoint you, unless this takes a very unexpected turn Heydrich won't be the bottom. Sorry, but Marseille is such an unbearable brat that Heydrich needed to teach him a lesson. Or several.

The review just compared the movie to Pearl Harbor, which I couldn't even finish watching because it was so bad. But, the pretty pictures convinced me to download it and give it a try. (also, not slashy in real life? Please, that picture is very slashy. ^^)

Hellstrom/Burger? Om nom ... I just considered Landa/Hellstrom/Burger, because I have trouble shipping Hellstrom with anyone without adding Landa to it.

[machiavelli-imp.livejournal.com]

Sadly I don't think I'll be free to leave for civilisation until July at least. I'd like to visit Berlin again and compare it with my experience in winter, but the tourists will probably crawl over everything like mildew in a shower. (Pot. Kettle.)

Here you go (it took me a while to find this - I had to go through skull_bearer's memories because I gave up on cat_irix' tags): bottom!Heydrich (http://cat-irix.livejournal.com/330666.html) and prompt table (http://cat-irix.livejournal.com/322097.html). I'm glad to hear that Heydrich vents his spleen on arrogant young men other than Hellstrom. (Variety is the spice of life after all.)

I didn't even attempt to watch Pearl Harbour, so I can;t compare the two. I find that the film improves greatly if you just treat the nurse as a physical manifestation of his conscience. The snogging scene then becomes amusingly Freudian. But who cares about the plot when the amount of screen time devoted to pretty pilot boys is what counts, right? OK, OK the picture *is* slashy, but not as much as the last Richthofen/Voss scene. Om nom subtext!

Landa is just a sex catalyst. Honestly, if he'd been in the Bierkeller scene the entire table would have relocated to a bed in seconds (thus leaving Bridget with the drunken Stabsgefreiter - a shame really, he would have increased the drooling).

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

Tourists always crawl over Berlin. I just keep reminding myself that it's not as bad as Paris, that helps. But, yeah, if you find your way to civilisation, be sure to tell me. I will stalk you. :)

Aaaahh, right, I have read those, after all. Somehow part of me had hoped there was more than the ones I already knew about. ;) And Marseille deserves Heydrich's anger a lot more than Hellstrom ever did ... He's so incredibly insolent.

The only reason I watched Pearl Harbor was because I finally wanted to know what I was talking about when I hummed "Pearl Harbor sucked just a little bit more than I miss you" (Team America, if you haven't seen it, you should change something about that :)). It's easily one of the crappiest movies with one of the most annoying love stories I've ever seen.
Mhm, okay, pretty pilot boys. I can't resist that argument.

Landa in that scene ... oh my god. You made my head explode. About as much as when I started imagining Landa in a black SS-uniform. *dies a little*

[machiavelli-imp.livejournal.com]

May I suggest imagining Landa removing his black SS uniform?

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

Mhm, removing his tie and jacket, unbuttoning his shirt, but leaving the rest on? I'm afraid the only possible reaction to this can be: GUH!

So, I watched the pretty pilot boys. Somehow I had expected that Voss would be around more. They couldn't just kill him 40 minutes before the movie ends, the last 40 minutes were entirely pointless. The slashiness is incredible and demands smutty, dirty, porny fic. It almost made up for the fact that every scene in this movie that was not Richthofen/Voss was either boring or annoying. (Mhm, I do like the blue of their uniform coats, btw. I just realised that.)

Re: Please, please write the letter!

[skull-bearer.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I spent Christmas day being lectured for being a Nazi by two Jews whom I would normally count amongst my friends, merely because I view them as people instead of machines

I have a Jewish friend who does that. Fortunately I point out that he's wanted in about four different countries and can't go into Europe any more because Romanian has put out a Euro-warrent for him. He's one to talk.

Re: Please, please write the letter!

[machiavelli-imp.livejournal.com]

Ahahaha! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. That is priceless. So if you're wanted in any EU country they can have a Europe-wide warrant out, not just in their own borders? I'd better watch watch I say in Germany then - the minute I start expressing the idea that Heydrich or Mengele were humans (not lizards from outer space) the government will probably come along and set my flat on fire.

Re: Please, please write the letter!

[skull-bearer.livejournal.com]

Well, he's been a thorn in that government's side for quite a time and it's taken them this long to get one out, so it can't be that easy...

Re: Please, please write the letter!

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

"lizards from outer space" --> I love that expression. :) Also, Uncle Schäuble knows and sees and hears everything you say in Germany.

Do write that letter!

[nuitari-aquariu.livejournal.com]

Gosh. I read Les Bienveillantes a while ago, let's say a year and a half, while I was in Great-Britain as an aupair. While bringing this book with me, I thought I would be busy with its reading the whole month of July. What a mistake, for I literally devoured said book in two weeks, caught in its stylish perfection and the fascination it unearthed in me.

I knew the English had not appreciated our choice for the Goncourt. They thought it was a poorly written book, merely done to relieve homosexual and wrong fantaisies of the author. I could not understand such a point of view, such a rejection for a book I thought was a master-piece. But now I understand. If the translators fuck up the whole meanings, the whole beauty of the sentences, changing them to their wills, then certainly it will be wrong!

So write that letter. I can't read German, I won't read the English version, but I'm concerned about the original will of the author, the real message he wanted to diffuse through his opus.

Have a nice Christmas and New Year's Eve as well!

PS : La traduction m'a parue tout à fait acceptable pour un travail fait à cinq heures du matin ;) !

Re: Do write that letter!

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

When I started reading it, I thought I'd devour it in no time, but then real life came along and fucked it up. ;) Again, I have no idea if the English translation is any better than the German one, who knows. But I agree, it confirms once more what I've always thought, that literature, even novels, can't really be translated, especially not with an author like this one.

Merci, en plus j'ai toujours l'excuse de passer d'une langue étrangère à une autre, donc forcément mes traductions entre anglais et francais ne sont pas parfaites. ;)

[skull-bearer.livejournal.com]

Man I really need to finish that book. Unforunately as I'm writing my own (although I think Max would realy get on with Mirek and Johannes) at my last year of uni and actually doing translations myself, time is at a premium. I need a nice long continental holiday with only that book with me... and even then I'd probably buy a dozen books along the way and devour them.

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean; I took a break from reading it because of homework and because Heydrich distracted me. I really have to finish it now before my classes start again, or else I'll never have the time.

[septemberoses.livejournal.com]

Okay, this was fascinating to read. I'm not the multi-language geek and I'm certainly no translator, but I have friends who translate, two of them professionally, and other people's half-assed translations make them crazy.

It's so fun to pick apart even just a particular WORD -- as you said in your post, penible would likely turn into one of those multi-word explanatory forays. Also I have a friend who's French and her English is impeccable except every now and again she uses an English word very slightly ... off kilter. And we get into discussions there, it's fun! (I of course am a crummy Ammurrican who only speaks half-assed Tourist Spanish and am in no position to criticize anyone.) Simply as a lover of my own language, though, it's fun to pick apart multiple meanings.

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

Bad translations drive me insane, yes. It's one thing if you're just quickly translating something for a friend, but if you're a professional translator for LITERATURE, you shouldn't fuck up so badly. *sigh*

Heh, I know what you mean. It's the nuances that get you. I know I still write strange things in French and English sometimes, and use words in ways that give native speakers a head ache. ;) Some words are just intranslatable, and you can paraphrase them, or use a word that's close in this particular context, but you'll never get exactly the same nuance as the original word. It's actually very frustrating, but also fascinating. ^^

[ayala-steelfire.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes, translations. The Italians use to say "Traddutore, traditore", which means "translator = traitor". I'm often shocked by the lack of accuracy displayed by so-called professional translators.

Interesting discussion in the comments about the concepts of good and evil. Yes, we live in an overly politically correct world, and people prefer to think in absolutes.
There are no monsters, except in Sci-Fi and horror books. There are just humans, and Homo sapiens, as a superpredator, sometimes does terrible things. Which doesn't make them less our fellow humans. This truth might be too hard to stomach for some people, but I believe it to be true nevertheless.

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

I'm used to fantasy books being badly translated, but somehow I had been convinced that "serious literature" (for lack of a better word) was better translated. I was very obviously wrong. More languages need to be learnt now. :)

True. And monsters aren't interesting, which is one of the reasons I stopped reading fantasy, except for the rare exceptions of good fantasy. Pure evil, just like pure good, is boring, like any stereotype. But, yeah, admitting that there's more to them would require using one's brain.

[(Anonymous)]

j'aime bien quand tu dis des trucs gentils sur des trucs français :)
ASI lafiou joyeux nowel !

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

Ca m'arrive de temps en temps. :) Il faut absolument que tu lises ce livre si t'as le temps, il est magnifique. :)
Joyeux noel à toi aussi, ASI! :D

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

It does, it does. Especially when it's such an awesome book. And now I sit around wondering if there are other passages the translator screwed up. *sigh*
Btw, what about that sequel? ;)