OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE FANDOM!!!

[linndechir]

You know what pisses me off? Blatant hypocrisy in fandom. I mean, I get it, we all have favourite characters and we are a lot more forgiving about their faults, and we have characters we already despise, so of course we're going to be even harder on them when they fuck up. And that's okay, we're all human and biased. But when two characters DO THE EXACT SAME FUCKING THING, and you applaud one of them for being badass and cool and doing the right thing, and hate on the other for doing something so utterly horrible and evil ... it's just dumb. It's okay to hate characters, and it's okay to be protective of characters you love. But that doesn't mean that those you hate can't occasionally do something cool. Nor does loving a character mean that they don't occasionally fuck up and do something wrong. But if character A doing something is totally badass (or at least acceptable), I don't see why character B doing the same thing is horrifying and wroooong.

The most obvious example of this is the kind of people who yell OMFG DOMESTIC ABUSE at Robert slapping Cersei, but cheer loudly and happily when Tyrion slaps Joffrey. Make up your mind: either hitting people is wrong, then you shouldn't be so happy about Tyrion slapping his thirteen-year-old nephew. Or you think that occasionally people are such dumb shits that they deserve a slap, and in that case I don't see why you get all outraged about Robert slapping Cersei. Because the situation was very similar. You don't get to feel all righteous and outraged about the one and applaud the other. I could go on and on with examples (kings executing people for high treason, which is apparently cool when "flawless" Robb does it, but despicable when "evil" Stannis does it; or kinslaying/shrugging it off when someone else kills your relatives), but then I'd just get angry. Angrier. *grumble*

Just, argh. Don't mind me, I'm in a ranting mood.

Comments

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

Yep, I'm gonna be mad if GRRM has Stannis go dark side. I want, if anything, one of the apparent heroes to turn sorta evil, not the guy who was set up as somewhat villainous from the start.

[geeklee.livejournal.com]

I want, if anything, one of the apparent heroes to turn sorta evil

martin's hinted it might be jon. he said jon's action will become more and more grey in the next story.

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I know, but Jon never struck me as particularly heroic in the first place. But I know that's just because I never paid attention to him until the end of ASOS. ;) I'm still on team "evil Targaryens and evil dragons", but I'll take Darth Jon over Darth Stannis any day. I just kind of want Stannis and Jon on the same side.

[geeklee.livejournal.com]

really? you never thought of jon as heroic? gosh he's been set up as the underdog-morph-into-superman character since his introduction.

i doubt very seriously that dany will turn evil. it goes against all we've been shown about her. i don't know enough about aegon, though. it would be a nice twist considering varys "thinks" he's groomed aegon to be the perfect king. wouldn't it be ironic if he becomes a sadistic evil tyrant because it's genetic? i'm thinking of all the nature vs. nurture arguments.

ok, that's probably too twisted. i'll go back to thinking normally.

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

Rationally i know that, I just slept through his chapters in the first books. ;)

Daenerys just strikes me as the kind of person who could easily turn batshit insane evil while still thinking she's doing the right thing. Hell, she's basically destroyed the entire economy and society of several cities for what she thought were good reasons. I doubt GRRM is cool enough to pull that off, but I'd love it. It helps that Daenerys is a POV character, i.e. we're supposed to be sympathetic to her and don't expect her to turn bad.
Nah, I'd hate for Aegon to be a bad guy, because that would just turn him into another obstacle for Daenerys to defeat,and that'd be just cheap.

[geeklee.livejournal.com]

its just the groomed to be the perfect king by being forced to wash your own clothes theory that varys had. i mean i understand what he meant by it but i feel like aegon's upbringing was hollow and in a vacuum despite whatever lessons he was meant to learn. but since his nurture was so thought out, i think it would be kind of cool if his nature still wins out in the end. after all, the targs are known for going crazy.

that's all. but i do wonder how they will unite, if they do. the fact that there is no knowledge of the other will mean they are complete strangers. who will want to give up their shot at the throne for a complete stranger?

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

Haha, I get you, it's one of the reasons I want batshit crazy Daenerys. ^^ Mostly, though, I want Aegon to be real because I want Daenerys to have to face the fact that she is not the legitimate Targaryen heir (Rhaegar's son would come before Rhaegar's sister). That might make for an interseting twist, but I doubt GRRM is going for that kind of conflict. It's more likely that either Aegon turns out to be fake and/or dies soon, or that they'll be allies and marry.

[geeklee.livejournal.com]

and as for dany, i actually don't think martin means to show that she means well and things still go wrong. i think its meant to show that you're not a born ruler, you have to learn to rule. which means mistakes will be made. costly mistakes. ossos is meant to be her teacher, imo.

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

Well, it'S kind of not cool to use an entire continent with real people and all just so our speshul Targaryen princess can learn how to be a ruler. Also, I don't really see her learning anything. But I think we've established that we disagree a lot about Daenerys. *shrug*

[geeklee.livejournal.com]

speshul Targaryen princess

you're funny :)

i agree its not cool to use an entire continent as a testing ground. martin used to say over and over again how much he loved lord of the rings but that at the end when aragorn is made king, we have no idea what sort of king he would be so it doesn't surprise me that he would show people (not just dany) making huge blunders as they figure out how to rule. but let's face it - they're the other people, not the beloved people of westoros.

i think most people are not upset about the increasing death toll of daenerys' lessons because they are not westerners. how many fans have complained about characters with names they can't pronounce. (let's not mention that most fantasy books feature names that are not common) i think martin does that so we won't mind them being roasted or sliced or whatever. we're meant to not be as connected to them.

and to keep people from screaming racism as well as keep dany on the side of good, he has her fight to free people. its kind of smart as it brings up so many other points he wants to make - shows how fragile economies can be, shows how difficult it is to fully understand another's culture, shows that while we may not agree with a culture we don't necessarily have the right to interfere, shows how rulers have to compromise even when they don't want to, gives her opportunity to grow, etc.

i think this is also another way for grrm to show that doing the right thing isn't always right. no one would openly say not to do anything about slaves if you could, yet abolishing slavery (something we all agree is bad) in essos had unbelievable consequences (which i don't think we would have anticipated).