linndechir

WEll, some of them seem to agree with me/us, but a lot of them seem to ship them in a very traditional "I want them to marry and have kids" way, and I just don't see that as a realistic outcome for the pairing. I also don't think it would make either of them happy.

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obviously, everyone is allowed their own opinion, but I just don't see it. The only outcome I see (squinting) is something that is actually a common "future" in snasaxsandor fanfiction - after all is said and done Sansa becoming a mistress of Winterfell (on her own), Sandor working for her with occasional sex. I quite like this outcome actually as I DON'T want Sansa to "marry happily ever after" with some princeling. I want her to make it on her own and have men at her feet. (Well, Sansa marrying Stannis with occasional threesome with their worker Sandor will be fine too. :D)

Edit: but I am 100% sure sandor is gonna die, though.

Edited Date: 2011-09-27 11:36 am (UTC)

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I'm usually not a big fan of endings in which someone marries and lives happily ever after, but for Sansa I really hope this will happen. It's what she wants - a happy relationship with a man who loves her and whom she loves, and I'm fairly sure she wants children as well. I usually hate this kind of ending because it doesn't make any sense for many female characters, but it does make sense for Sansa. I want her to get what she wants. Which is one of my reasons for shipping her with Stannis, because he's enough of what she wants, but in a way she never expected.
Sansa as somewhat lonely mistress of Winterfell who occasionally bangs her bodyguard Sandor (and is probably married to some guy she doesn't love, because Winterfell needs an heir) just makes me incredibly sad. She deserves better.

I agree, Sandor will most likely die. But I'm okay with that, because he's one of those characters who are probably incapable of having any sort of happy ending.

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I would rather prefer her marrying, but I am really against the common wish for Sansa to marry a beautiful young princeling. I just am. I think she is already beyond the point of only seeing the Outward beauty. So when she marries I want a guy that will make her happy, older or younger or anything. Just the guy that will make HER happy instead of the other way around. A shiny young prince -I do not wish that. AT ALL. This will be coming back to the beginning and .. I don't like it.

Lonely mistress - yes, also not my favourite scenario (this is why I said "squinting"), but at least I can see it happening without characters being untrue to themselves.

For Sandor a happy ending will be to kill Gregor. I have also seen many sansa/Sandor shippers expressing sort of an opinion that Sandor is all about Sansa. I don't think so. I think he is all about Gregor.

Edited Date: 2011-09-27 11:46 am (UTC)

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Don't get me wrong, I don't want Sansa to marry the kind of beautiful young princeling she dreamt of pre-GoT. I don't quite understand people who mind when Sansa is shipped with an older man, because I think Sansa would be way happier with a more mature man than with a guy her own age. I want Sansa to realise (she already has done so, a bit) that outward beauty isn't what mattered, that whether a man makes her happy or not does not depend on him being a pretty, gallant knight from the songs. I think many people ship Sandor/Sansa for precisely that reason: because it's about Sansa learning to love someone for other reasons than "my beautiful golden prince SPARKLE".

I can see it happening, but I don't want it to happen. Also, I don't think Sansa will be mistress of Winterfell. It looks like Rickon will be returning, and I think his character would be fairly pointless if he doesn't end up being the Stark in Winterfell. I just want Lord Rickon. ;)

I agree. Sure, Sansa is important to Sandor, but he'd abandon her in a heartbeat if it meant getting a chance to kill Gregor. So I hope that he'll manage. And then, I don't know, die defending Sansa, or die helping her kill Littlefinger. ^^

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Yes, i am the same. To tell the truth, I know you don't like Tyrion, but I think if/when he sorts himself out he can be a good husband to her and I am 75% sure this is where the books are going - I am just surprised why is it just me who thinks so. :D The probability of this happening is really high. Tyrion needs sorting out, but he is going to be a good husband and right for Sansa class-wise.

Because yes, Rickon is going to be the Lord of Winterfell. I just mean "I see it happening in character believability way". The scenarios of them marrying = SO NO POSSIBLE AT ALL.

I think it is going to be a big scene involving gregor, Sansa and Sandor at the end. But I think Sansa will sort Littlefinger out herself (not killing him, though).

Edited Date: 2011-09-27 12:24 pm (UTC)

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I'm okay with Tyrion, I just think he should have died. Not because I dislike him, but because his storyline should be over. But I despise Tyrion/Sansa so much. It's one thing for her to look beyond mere looks, but another to end up with Tyrion, of all people. The girl deserves so, so much better, and I don't think Tyrion would be an even remotely good husband to her. Not even if he pulls himself together. If this happens in canon, I will be so, so mad.

But Littlefinger must die. As long as he's alive, he's dangerous.

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lololol. I think my judgement for Tyrion might be clouded by own like for him. I would have totally married him (and would have sorted him out myself :D, he needs a good head-cleaning) . But yes, we'll agree to disagree on this. I just think this is likely what is going to happen in the books, and although I don't want to brag (:D) - I do have a high count of ending predictions. But if Martin surprises me, I am happy for Sansa to marry ANYONE, just NOT the perfect prince Aegon or someone else equally priceling-like. Because this is just going back to square one.

there will be a big Vartys/Littlefinger standoff at the end and they will kill each other. :D

Edited Date: 2011-09-27 12:31 pm (UTC)

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I understand liking Tyrion, and he might be a good husband for some women, but not for Sansa. Just, no way. I also doubt that the story is going that way - and if it does, I doubt that Sansa would ever be happy about it. She wouldn't even give him a chance, just like she didn't before. Why would she once he comes back? But, yeah, let's agree to disagree.
Definitely not Aegon. Just, no one her age. The girl needs a mature man. Stanniiiiiiis. ;) Okay, I know THAT will never happen, but it should.

Ugh. I hope they die far earlier than that. I can't even decide which one I hate more. LF, I think, but Varys is close.

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I can't even decide which one I hate more. LF, I think, but Varys is close

this reminds me that i noticed yesterday no one had opted to discuss these two pivotal characters in the discussion post. i was hoping someone would because i would love to understand them better. well, at least varys. i feel like i know what and why littlefinger is but what is varys' real motive? is it just to put aegon on the throne and if so, couldn't he have accomplished it differently?

i have so many questions!

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I think we can't yet know what Varys wants, we need more info on him. For the moment anything about him is pure speculation. *shrug* I honestly don't care much. But maybe someone will still pop up and write a post about one of these two.

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I am just surprised why is it just me who thinks so. :D The probability of this happening is really high.

i've always assumed this was their future and have said so often. sadly, i've said it on westeros.org where there are serious sansa lovers who only see her very romantically with sandor. just thinking about some of the analysis i've read about her last interaction with him in her room is making me shudder. i'm with you and linn, this should just not be. and i also think sandor's days are numbered. i agree there seems to be some foreshadowing of a showdown with the mountain, the dog and the little bird.

as for tyrion, i've believed this since she began thinking back on her time with him as allayne. the only thing i'm not 100% sure about is whether tyrion will live. i'm worried about his kinslaying coming back to haunt him.

i am DYING to know how things are resolved with sansa and littlefinger. while i really think all those fans writing unflattering things about martin is rude, cruel and just plain awful, i totally understand their motivation :)

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Oh, I am so glad you also think Tyrion and Sansa will be "together" at the end - I trust you, geek! I can't really explain why I think this is going to happen, I just .. think so.

Answering some of your Sansa/Sandor comments, i personally think he has "reformed", so the Sandor we will hopefully see again will be a different man, and I am not going to be remembering the "sins" of the man he was before.
And the fact that he actually didn't do anything to Sansa (I think he didn't even kiss her, btw, as this wasn't in the original scene) always counted in his favour for me. I can have my man dangerous and crazy, but it is great to see him able to stop even "under the influence", this says much about his "soul". But at the same time, no they don't suit to each other as partners! not at all!

If by some crazy whim of Martin's Sandor will survive the ordeal, I want him to go back and live as happily as he could, adopting war orphans or something like that.

while i really think all those fans writing unflattering things about martin is rude, cruel and just plain awful

oh, who writes what? Where?

Edited Date: 2011-09-27 02:34 pm (UTC)

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it is great to see him able to stop even "under the influence", this says much about his "soul".

i've read so many interpretations of their interaction in that room, many of which say he didn't stop and that sansa blotted it out and that's what's meant by her blackout. as i said, there are some that ship these two in the worst way.

adopting war orphans or something like that

alright. now i'm completely lmao.

who writes what? Where?
there were horrible things written about him and to him directly about his delay in getting adwd out. its all over the place. one fan even created a blog that he eventually turned into a book. it was really very mean spirited. i hope it doesn't happen again if the next book takes a while to be released.

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EEEEEEEEEEEEEEK! My personal interpretation is that nothing happened and she for some reason remembers it differently - there is no "lost time" in the original scene. Oh, also this is what he says to Arya, doesn't he, when he is just about to die and he wants her to "give him a gift of mercy", that he should have "raped your sister" (obviously saying the worst things as he is trying to make Arya angry)? If he actually did something so Sansa (other than a kiss, which might have happened) he would have definitely told it to Arya! SOME PEOPLE ARE CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOO!

lol.

Martin has the write to write what he wants.

Edited Date: 2011-09-27 03:00 pm (UTC)

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well, all this came about when sansa is talking about her first kiss to that girl in the eyrie. she seems to be remembering it all wrong and iirc, attributes it to sandor. grrm mentions that this is important. the fact that she is remembering something differently but he doesn't say why, of course. i'll go look for some stuff to explain this better since i seem to be rambling incoherently. (and can't even remember that girl's name!)

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Oh, I know the scene. Yes, I think it is important , but I always contributed this importance to be the fact that Sansa (unexpectedly) does like Sandor because she does remember him in a favourable light (which I didn't expect her to do)

Anyways, I am not really that worried, I am just surprised some people .. you know.. go that far.

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this may help (http://towerofthehand.com/blog/2008/02/07_a_kiss_to_remember_me_by/index.html).

see the comments. made my head pop a few times. and there are quite a few of these on other sites.

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Oh, thank you! I could imagine what the arguments would have been , I am quite familiar with this subject.

Me? I am firmly in the school of thought "nothing happened", because this what Sandor says in "his moment of truth", being sober, and wanting Arya to kill him. It doesn't make sense for him to hide what happened here as he wants Arya to kill him. And anyways, he does tell the truth always, whatever he is, he never lies.

If you see, the majority there agree with me too - I think nothing ever happened, nit even a kiss (because again, Sandor could have mentioned that too to anger Arya).

BUT SOME CRAZY COMMENTS ARE THERE!!!!

Edited Date: 2011-09-27 03:23 pm (UTC)

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true. the one thing i can't refute is the symbolism of him giving her his cape. today it would just be gallant to keep a woman warm but in those days a man giving a woman a cloak was a big deal.

not sure what to make of the gesture. what do you think? is it nothing or something yet to be discussed?

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Well, he didn't quite "give it to her", he dropped it on a floor as he left because he didn't want anyone to recognize him , without thinking of any symbolism, just as I would imagine him to do. :D

The important part is that she took it (off the floor) , covered herself with it and kept it all the time. In my simple mind - she fancies him :D, this what that means.

The kiss might have happened , though, and Martin put it there to make us mad with over-thinking.

Edited Date: 2011-09-27 03:28 pm (UTC)

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whew. i was hoping that was the case. thanks for crushing the niggle of doubt all the crazy people were creating in my mind :D

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This is the moment in the book, BTW:

"Some instinct made her lift her hand and cup his cheek with her fingers. The room was too dark for her to see him, but she could feel the stickiness of the blood, and a wetness that was not blood. “Little bird,” he said once more, his voice raw and harsh as steel on stone. Then he rose from the bed. Sansa heard cloth ripping, followed by the softer sound of retreating footsteps.
When she crawled out of bed, long moments later, she was alone. She
found his cloak on the floor, twisted up tight, the white wool stained by blood and fire. The sky outside was darker by then, with only a few pale green ghosts dancing against the stars. A chill wind was blowing, banging the shutters. Sansa was cold. She shook out the torn cloak and huddled beneath it on the floor, shivering."

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so from this reading, i get more that the cloak symbolizes sandor ripping off his responsibility to the kingsguard than anything else. but it is odd that she would then choose a torn, bloody cloak to keep her warm. probably because sandor has been someone she could rely on to take care of her when she was in trouble.

in any case, i will pay close attention to her interactions with him when i re-read the series.

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