What has been seen cannot be unseen

[linndechir]

Almost a month since my last entry, which was very short. No, I am not dead or suddenly less of an internet addict. But I have no fic to show because of my incredible lack of creativity at the moment; uni and loads of exams have been keeping me busy, and my internet time has been spent drooling at the probably most awesome German national team in the history of football. I've been wanting to do a huge picspam of them for weeks, but how am I suppose to choosed from those hundreds and thousands of pictures of fun and joy and epicness? And now the World Cup has been over for a week and I still haven't posted a picspam. I won't do it now either because I have an exam tomorrow and should sleep now. But there's one thing someone pointed out in one of the comms today, and it needs to be shared ...






All right, admittedly a more harmless version of Aldo Raine, but still ... the moustache? The sprawl? I just can't unsee it ... *cries*
Btw, Ballack only wears that stupid outfit for some ad he did years ago. I hope. ;)

Until I find time for a proper post ... have a little macro to expand your vocabulary ...


...another one for the obligatory 300 joke ...


... and while Bastian Schweinsteiger is probably God, he can still fail:


Okay, I shouldn't call him God, because that title is reserved for Miro Klose:


Oh, damn, now that I got started, I have to post another two or three pretty pics:






Oh, and speaking of Marcell Jansen, the beauty on the right ...



Damn, before I get started on a huge picspam ... I will stop right away and go to bed. Wish me luck for my exam tomorrow. And I hope I made you look forward to more pictures, because even if you don't give a damn about football, these guys make models look ugly. ;)

[I found the macros on the internet, somewhere, I have no idea who made them, so I  can't really credit anyone, sorry.]

Comments

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

I guess you're right, but I still feel weird about it. Maybe because they're still alive? Writing actor RPS was also a real pain, writing Nazi slash was so much more relaxing. Erm. That sounds wrong, doesn't it? ;)

[deborahkla.livejournal.com]

I feel the same way about RPS with living people. Plus, I'd love to see another Heydrich/Schellenberg fic. I can never have enough of those. ;-D

In general, I find historical RPS to be absolutely delightful. But living persons? I always feel that it's less believable somehow. Maybe because, with the exception of yourself (even if it is struggle) it's so badly written.

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

True, true. But somehow I feel like everything has been said in the fic I wrote. I know it sounds stupid and arrogant, but I honestly love that fic and I don't think I could outdo myself with these two. Whatever other Heydrich/Schellenberg I could write would only be a meagre shadow of this one. Maybe it's because I understand Heydrich so well that I can't write him. It feels very, very personal. I'm not comfortable with writing personal stuff.

Why thank you. Even if there is great RPS out there. I think it can be believable, but at least I usually beat myself up about it while writing. And writing is enough of a pain as it is, without the added fretting of "omfg I'm not getting this actor/player/whatever I admire right!"

(icon reused to make you happy)

[deborahkla.livejournal.com]

Thank you, thank you, for your generous reuse of the Heydrich hand kink icon.

Now it's up to Nariel to publish that delightful Heydrich/Schellenberg one-night-stand fic she wrote. When the heck is that going to appear for everyone to enjoy? I mean, we even have pics to illustrate the thing. Heydrich in naval uniform, cute little boyish passport photo of Schellenberg.

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

Yeah, she oughta. The world needs more Heydrich/Schellenberg. I don't see why other people refuse to contribute to it. And at least Nariel can write them ... I shudder to think of those horrible Heydrich/Himmler-fics out there ... Dear internet, leave your dirty hands of complex characters you can't write, kthxbai.

[deborahkla.livejournal.com]

Maybe I'll try my hand at one. Or perhaps Stierlitz/Schellchen, has anyone written one of these?

And who can we pair up with Max Aue? Aside from his sister, which I know you won't read. That's going to be Machiavelli & my Wagner fic.

(icon used with Nariel's permission.)

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

Don't think there's any out there. But I think Stierlitz is also incredibly difficult to write. And and and Heydrich disapproves of anyone stealing his Schellchen. He's possessive. ;)

Thomas maybe? His beloved Thomas? Or, whathisname, his linguist boyfriend? Or Hellstrom, for that matter?

[deborahkla.livejournal.com]

All of these are excellent suggestions for Max Aue, particularly his linguist boyfriend. I was so disappointed that those two did not get it on in the book. Could they have possibly been MORE slashy? Well, yes. They could have sucked and fucked, but they didn't.

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it was a bit disappointing. Still, it actually made a lot of sense, considering Aue's general policy: he only fucks with people he considers fuckbuddies (like that really young guy, what was his name ... the one he seduced with his pseudo-Greek philosophy), but he doesn't sleep with the people he really cares about (Thomas, the linguist bf). But I won't get started on another huge analysis of Aue's sexuality (in short: unlike some readers, I don't think he's actually straight, I think he's as gay as you can get; I just think he's very, very repressed, despite his apparently cool "I like to get fucked, so what?"-attitude).

[deborahkla.livejournal.com]

You're right, it does make sense--especially since he is so repressed. He can't possibly think of himself having sex with a man with whom he actually has a relationship of some sort. But I still maintain that his sexuality goes beyond gay or straight since he identifies with his sister when he's fucked. It's just very complex. I certainly wouldn't call him straight by any means. But he's too easily aroused by his sister to be completely gay, either. This is why I like the word queer. It fits him perfectly without having to label him one of the other. I consider myself the same way.

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

Sure, you can always escape the classification and put him in some other category. But to me it's a lot simpler. He's gay. His attraction to his sister is so not heterosexual. There's NOTHING heterosexual about that. You may remember that the moment his pre-teen sister started to turn into a woman, Max was incredibly turned off. Also, his fantasies about fucking her from behind and refusing to do it any other way? I agree that he's pretty screwed-up, but that doesn't keep him from being homosexual. ;) Any way, there are different possible interpretations. *shrug*
The way I see it, he does feel somehow guilty about his sexuality. But it's a lot easier for him to acknowledge his sexual preferences than to acknowledge something that is socially even less acceptable, i.e. actually falling in love with another man (and not just in a platonical way). He knows he can get steaming hot gay sex if he likes, but he knows there's no way in hell he'll ever have a loving relationship with Thomas or any other man. He spares himself a lot of pain by not even acknowledging that as a possibility.

[deborahkla.livejournal.com]

I know gay men that enjoyed sex with women, truly enjoyed it (and some still do), but knew they were gay because they wanted to have an emotional relationship with a man. They weren't interested in falling in love with a woman. They wanted to fall in love with a man and be with him for the rest of their lives.

I've also known gay men who happily have sex with men but prefer to spend the rest of their lives with women--to the extent that some live with or have married women. Their emotional involvement revolves around women whom they may or may not sleep with.

Max fucking his sister from behind has to do with the fact that once she began her period they began having anal intercourse to avoid pregnancy. That's made clear in the book. But they have vaginal intercourse when he visits her in Switzerland, otherwise there'd be no twins, and his fantasies at his sister's villa all involve vaginal intercourse, and not from behind.

Max is turned off by the idea of having sex with any other woman. His closest friends are all men, yet he won't consider having an emotional relationship with a man. He's in love with his sister both emotionally and sexually, and that relationship is a huge part of his sexuality. This man clearly isn't straight, but he's not completely gay either. He's Max. This is one big issue that so many of my gay friends and I have. These labels are fucked up and limiting.

I understand personally Max's desire to identify with his sister by being penetrated in intercourse because I've been the opposite with women. 95 - 98% of the satisfaction I get from sleeping with a woman is related to the fact that I'm experiencing what a man would experience. That I get to be a man, as it were. There's even an aspect of me that feels that if I can't HAVE the man I want, I can at least BE him. I can charm a woman off her feet the way I'd like to be charmed by a man. Yet I sleep mostly with men and consider men my sexual preference. I can imagine falling in love with a woman and I have, but the idea of being in a relationship with one fills me with despair because I would miss men's bodies horribly. There's no way I could do it without having an open relationship, and most woman who identify as lesbians wouldn't allow that. Their "identity" is too important to them.

This is why I hate the idea of sexual "identities." They're too restrictive. Most of my gay friends feel the same. They hate the whole alphabet soup LGBTQI community nonsense. They may participate in some gay events, but they hate all the rules and regulations that come with being part of a "community."

So it's more complex than with whom you prefer have sex. But Max's sexuality is not a big concern to me. What does bug the shit out of me in the book is that he isn't just in denial about the twins, but rather seems completely clueless that he's their father. I mean, you'd think that a man with that amount of self-insight (and it's not inconsiderable by a long shot) could see the obvious. That's the only aspect of the book that bothers me. Perhaps with the translation. Was he that clueless in the French original? This is not a stupid man and the statements he makes in the English versio make it quite clear that they're his. There are certain associations he makes with their birth that make it so obvious, and there's nothing in the book to convince me that he could be so clueless.

Unless, of course, he's lying. Which is always interesting in a protagonist. It's one of the aspects of Ford Madox Ford's "The Good Soldier" that I find most intriguing. The fact that we're not sure if the characters are being truthful, yet have no proof one way or another, just a nagging suspicion that tells the reader to be wary. But that's a device that's extraordinarily difficult to pull off. Not only did Ford do it, but he wasn't even working in his native tongue when he wrote the novel.

Whatever. I love "The Kindly Ones", and could spend days discussing it, sharing differing opinions, etc.!

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

Help. You know, this is why I didn't get started again on this discussion. ;) I wasn't talking about any sexual 'identities', because, like you, I think it's a rather stupid concept. When I say gay, straight, bi, I simply mean sexual preference, which doesn't have necessarily anything to do with any sort of identity. I'm straight, because I'm attracted to men and not to women. That's not my identity, that's just a random, fairly irrelevant fact like "I'm blond" and it says about as much about myself. So, when I say that Max is gay, all I'm saying is that he's attracted to men. Nothing more. And the only reason I'm saying this is because I did half a spit-take the first time I read some interpretation of Max actually being heterosexual and just sleeping with men because [insert weird explanation here]. Apart from that I really couldn't care less.

I think Max is lying or at least not saying the truth rather often. Or rather: he has a very warped view of himself. I'm not even sure he's consciously lying. He just has trouble accepting certain things about himself, and his big bravado of "look at me, I'm writing the whole truth, even that I had an incestuous relationship with my sister!" is just a cheap cover for the things he doesn't want to say.

Anyway, I don't want to get again into this whole argument about Max' sexual identity or preference or whatever. How about we all think what we want to think, because this is the kind of discussion where nobody agrees on anything anyway, and it's tiresome. We just keep repeating over and over what we think, and then we all feel very intelligent, and I really get enough of that at uni. ;)

icon just for lulz ;) not dissin'

[assassin-nariel.livejournal.com]

So basically what you guys've got here is a problem of definition, right? Linn decides the gay/straight thing based on actual sexual preference, Deb based on emotional involvement. Well, both are valid, I suppose. Just, Linn calls Max gay 'cause he's into dicks. And boy, he is. And Deb says, nope, he's too much in love with his sister to be exclusively gay. Well, these are not mutually exclusive, so why argue? I also read it the way that Max was excited by the childishness of her body, lack of breasts, of pubic hair... and the implications of that *gulp*... Well. Let's just not go there.
Ne, Linn, our little conversation yesterday, about German-footballers-in-SS-Junkerschule!AU? About Miro...errr, Untersturmführer M. Klose, liking his little Poldi way earlier than we presumed? Holding him on his lap and cuddling him? O;-)You moaned, bb.

;-)

Re: icon just for lulz ;) not dissin'

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

Schellchen findet mich schon allein deshalb doof, weil er eh findet, dass er die ganze Aufmerksamkeit bekommen soll, die der doofe, doofe Aue hier bekommt. :D
Yeah, well, anyway, definition, whatever. I honestly don't care. Max can be whatever he likes, as long as no wacko calls him straight. ^^

Fuck you, darling. :P You say that like you only just found out. Dooku/Qui, anyone? ;) Anyway, I wasn't talking/thinking about 5-year-old Poldi. I'm not that sick. I'm a good girl. Sorta. Here, have a happy-icon. ^^

Like internet and kiddy porn, like guns and the US! *worships Tim Minchin*

Re: icon just for lulz ;) not dissin'

[deborahkla.livejournal.com]

Whatever the hell he is, I just love Max. But he's definitely NOT straight. I wish the word "queer" was more socially acceptable. Unfortunately, a lot of older gay men were tormented by it in the USA, so it's almost the equivalent of the "N" word. But it so fits Max to a "T". The man is sooo queer.

For the record, I don't exclusively define sexuality based on emotional involvement, because people's emotions are usually so fucked up. But there are some gays who do. I basically don't define it at all because it's too damn complex to be defined. As far as I'm concerned, everyone should just be able to fuck whoever they want without being labeled one way or another, especially if it forces them into making a "choice". I have a sexual preference, not an identity. My preference is men, but on occasion I do enjoy a woman. But that's enough windbaggery from me.

Ickk! Kiddy porn! We are sooo evil. x-D

Re: icon just for lulz ;) not dissin'

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

Dunno, I just really, really dislike the word "queer". Maybe it's because it means nothing except that someone is so "not normal". Coming from "normal" people, I think it's pretty offensive. Coming from people who call themselves queer, I find it ... Mhm, not sure how to say this. I just have a bit of a problem with people who seem to define their entire identity based on one feature, like being gay/queer/whateveryouwannacallit, or belonging to some ethnic minority, or whatever. And "queer" is such a typical term, mostly used by people who go around saying "I'm queer" as if that explained everything. You know what I mean? My brain is fried from exam preparation, so my eloquence is severely diminished. ;)

But then again, I'm also an evil white privileged kid, so my opinion probably doesn't count anyway (I just read fandom secrets in a little break, and the femi-/racenazis over there make me laugh so hard ;)). :D

Heh, I expected more of a squee from you for the kiddy porn. ;)

Re: icon just for lulz ;) not dissin'

[deborahkla.livejournal.com]

You're right about the word "queer." I shall henceforth ban it from my lexicon entirely. It was your statement about it coming from so-called "normal" people that got to me.

When it comes to identities, I couldn't agree with you more. When it comes to using them, I only use "Writer" since that's been my profession for so long and one has to put something down when filling out all the forms one has to fill out in life, for taxes, etc.

Your brain seems to be doing fairly well to me. ;-) I should give myself a little amusement by reading those fandom secrets myself. I usually have to deal mostly with femi-nazis and über-Jews (for not being "Jewish enough") on ONTD_Political.

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

Haha, actually the part about "normal" people is less important for me. There are a lot of originally derogative words that have been 'reclaimed' by the people in question. I'm far more annoyed by these idiots who think they're special if they give themselves a cool name, and who are then all outraged if you get their labels mixed up.

Obviously some things you do or are influence your personality. I'm not a nationalist of any sorts, but to me it really matters that I'm German - not because I'm "proud" of it or anything stupid like that, but I know that the country, the history, the language really influenced the way I think. Other things - like being straight, or being a woman - really don't matter much for me, identity-wise. What I find strange is when people pick out one of these traits and decide that it defines entirely who they are. It just weirds me out.

I know why I avoid all kinds of ONTD. ;) über-Jews, lol. Another group of people I don't understand. Especially those who run around telling everyone how incredibly Jewish they are, and then they know even less about Jewish culture than me (and I already don't know much about it ;)). Anyway, the exams are over. I can now go back to being stupid and lazy, yay!

[deborahkla.livejournal.com]

Yes, like you I hate labels as well. The only one I'll be identified by is "writer" since I've been one more than half my life, made my living from it, etc. Just "writer", not "woman writer", although that distinction is made far less often than it was in the seventies, thank goodness.

The über-Jews drive me nuts when they sanctimoniously tell me, "oh, you couldn't possibly understand what we in Israel are going through..." It's around then that I tell them that I'M a Jew, you fucking idiots...then I only stay around long enough for their spluttering apologies, because I'm not interested in who's more Jewish than I am.

This was what surprised me when I came down to Southern California for University. I'd spent my whole life not being a pariah, per se, for being Jewish, but certainly standing out like a sore thumb with the other two Jews in school. So imagine my surprise when I was not Jewish ENOUGH for the Jews of Southern California.

I think of myself as very American because I'm a mixture of Russian-Jewish immigrant stock and WASE (White-Anglo-Saxon-Episcopalian) going back to the founding of the USA. I'm proud of both sides from a cultural standpoint because both have made me who I am.

Enjoy the laziness. Wallow in it. But I don't for a minute believe you can possibly go stupid, unless, of course, numerous pics of Hotzis are placed before you for long periods of time.

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

Erm ... I have Podolski and Klose cuddling and groping each other on my desktop ... I think that definitely makes me at least temporarily stupid. If the unarticulate "GUH UNF"-sounds are any indication of my intelligence. ;)

I'm almost glad that at least nobody in Germany will go on about who is more German than someone else. Then again, I'd beat them all if they ever tried to pull that one on me. ;) Mhm, I remember that wonderful quote I read somewhere. Americans wonder what's wrong with you if you don't want to be one of them. Germans wonder what's wrong with you if you want to be one of them. ;)

Enough silly quotes for today.

[(Anonymous)]

I iz in ur journals, spreadin kiddy porn LOL

[deborahkla.livejournal.com]

Not to worry! It's not officially an "argument" unless it's all caps. ;-D Otherwise it qualifies as a discussion. Max is just a fascinating character and I love talking about him, and am prone to get carried away. Sorry about that!

Remember, too, that it's been years since I was at university, and when you've been out for some time you start to crave real discussions, especially since people talk so much crap most of the time. ;-)

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

I don't argue in caps. I just end arguments in caps. ;) But you're probably right.

Hehe, probably true. Well, I get my share of discussions at uni (usually with weird people with weird opinions) and at home (with my mother and/or brother). And, hey, don't glorify uni, most people there just talk crap most of the time as well, to the point when you're always happy when one of the smart people opens their mouth. ^^

[deborahkla.livejournal.com]

Wait until you've finished university and you're living and working far away from your mother and brother. Believe me, you'll run into so many morons who have nothing to say and always talk crap that you'll start craving an intellectual discussion now and then!! ;-)